Financial misconduct is rampant these days, whenever it is a misappropriation of funds, bribery, corruption, fund embezzlement, employee wrongdoing or corporate fraud!

Chavi Gupta, our next pathbreaker, works as Senior Associate with Forensic Risk Alliance (New York), an international consultancy firm specializing in corruption and fraud investigations, compliance, and risk mitigations for multinational clients.

Chavi talks to Shyam Krishnamurthy from The Interview Portal about pivoting from a career in Internal Audit to a Forensic Accounting role which offered a unique set of challenges that required unique solutions.

For students, it is okay not to have everything chalked-out to the T. Everyone has their own journey, as long as you reach a destination that you are happy with, it does not matter. 

Chavi, Your background?

I belong to a typical middle-class business family from Delhi. My mother is a homemaker and my brother a data analyst. I used to visit my father’s office frequently as a kid, which helped me understand some of the basics of business. My family had the stereotypical thinking of getting me married once I was through with my education. So, if I had to do something in life, it had to be 1000% based on my determination, efforts, and conviction. Being enthusiastic about dancing, I thought I would end up becoming a choreographer or a dance teacher. During the end of my schooling, we saw a terrible financial downfall, and so I wanted to do something more sure shot. 

With so much uncertainty in the 12th Board exam results and cut-throat competition to get an admission in a good college, I appeared for CA foundation as a back-up plan. It is the most common resort for commerce students after MBA, of course. Fortunately, I scored well in both, i.e., board exams and CA foundation and that’s when things started getting real. I was suddenly juggling between college attendance, CA coaching and internship. I was also deeply involved in social work and had joined NGOs such as Times of India and Save the Quest for volunteering. 

What did you do for graduation/ post-graduation?

I did my schooling at Delhi Public School, Vasant Kunj – Delhi, and then attended Delhi College of Arts and Commerce, Delhi University for my Bachelor’s in commerce and pursued Chartered Accountancy simultaneously. 

Why did you choose such an offbeat, unconventional and unique career??

Since my family’s financial downfall, I was determined to work and make a good stable career. As Khalid Hosseini said, “Ideas are just hot air. An empty belly is a solid fact.” 

Joining Ernst & Young in 2015 as a CA intern was a turning point in my life. I was introduced to the corporate world, which was fun and stressful at the same time. The best part about the job was getting to interact with different people with diverse personalities, getting to know the internal controls and processes of large multinational corporations. 

With all the thrill and excitement in this profile, occasionally I used to feel that I might not be the right fit for the job in hand and that is when I decided to look for different opportunities within the same field, after clearing CA. With a little bit of research and connecting with people around, I drilled down to forensic accounting. I was intrigued by the nature of work. I got first-hand experience of forensics and investigation practice in my first job after clearing CA in Grant Thorton. Within 4 months of the shift, I knew I had entered the right field. 

How did you make a transition to a new career? Tell us about your career path.

As I said, my career goals were always uncertain. The only thing clear to me was that I am not going to settle till I am content. With every phase, I was learning something new, which not only enriched my journey but also helped me get closer to the ultimate goal. 

During my graduation, I joined a small CA firm to understand what my daily life would be like as a CA. It was a small office with twenty odd staff, things there were pretty relaxed. Though I learned a lot from people from different social classes, I did not feel I was carved-out for that kind of informal set-up.

Next, I took an internship in EY and joined their Business Advisory, Internal Audit department. How things run in a company has always fascinated me. Article ship provided me with the exact opportunity of working in a completely formal set-up with deep knowledge of how a company operates. I was there for 3 years, so I was fortunate to get experience of different industries. 

After clearing CA intermediary, I did 3 years internship in EY, as part of the course. My experience there was not that typical of CA, in terms of there being no return filing or taxation work involved. I chose specialization in Internal Audit and SOX (Sarbanes Oxlay Act) testing. In a layperson’s language, management of the company would hire us to assess their processes for potential fraud risk, verify if the defined processes are working as per expectations and also give any recommendations to further strengthen their policies and procedures. 

I took a break from my work to prepare for the CA final. It took me a few attempts and made me realize the importance of keeping patience and the value of commitment. It is easy to set goals without fully understanding the level of effort required to get through it. 

After getting through CA, I again started my job-hunt, but did not restrict myself to the Big 4 or Internal Audit jobs. I researched a little, talked to my peers and seniors, and explored forensic accounting roles. I gave multiple interviews and got into Grant Thornton. 

At Grant Thornton (“GT”), my work involved performing investigations such as asset tracing, investigating whistle-blower complaints, fraud risk assessments, forensic audits and also transaction audits under Insolvency and Bankruptcy Act 2016. An investigation primarily includes doing document review, performing analysis, performing media searches online etc., These are basic steps, and with each assignment comes its own set of challenges and hence unique solutions. 

I then made a shift to PwC for better work opportunities and global exposure. I was working with people from the Middle East, Tunisia, Singapore, US, and UK. 

My role in PwC was also in Forensic Accounting and Investigation, just the scale of assignments and exposure changed. 

In 2023, an opportunity in the US opened up and before I could wrap my head around it, I was already working for a specialized multi-national forensic accounting firm in the city of dreams, New York. It took more than two years of continuous effort by my husband and I to reach out to recruiters on LinkedIn and other portals who might or might not accept your request or respond to your message. It is an awfully long and exhausting process, but nothing great or big comes easy. 

Unlike people who have their career path clear in their mind, it took me quite a few trials and a lot of hard work. I am extremely proud and happy with my journey. 

How did you get your first break?

Importance of networking cannot be emphasized enough. Reference goes a long way, especially in job hunts and internships. It does not necessarily have to be a direct reference, I reached out to so many people via LinkedIn to get a better understanding of the companies in terms of work opportunities, team environment, promotions and appraisals, anything and everything which might not be available or be accurate online. Always try to increase your LinkedIn connections. 

I have got all my jobs via contacts/references whether personally or on LinkedIn. You will be surprised how helpful people can be. One of my friends in EY at that time, helped me get my first break. 

A stream change does not come easy especially when you have given three years to one. When I decided I wanted to pivot to another field, I knew I had to choose something that complemented my existing experience. Before convincing your employer, you should be 100% convinced and comfortable. Research and talk to as many people as you can to get a feel. Once you have convinced yourself, half the battle is won, and the rest is how you perform in the interview. I molded my answers in order to highlight the skills required for the job such analytical and skeptical mindset, problem-solver, ability to work under pressure, quick adapter. Once they know you have what is needed, things become smooth. 

What were some of the challenges you faced? How did you address them?

Challenge 1: My biggest challenge was my mindset and lack of knowledge. I was unaware of the fields that were open to me. Once I got into the corporate world, that is when my horizon broadened. There is absolutely no problem for which there is no solution, we just need to knock on the right doors. 

Challenge 2: Not giving enough weightage to networking. I am a socialite and have had many friends, but a small number of contacts. There is a difference between having friends and having connections. I realized it a little late in life. I have always associated myself with something or the other, whether it is a temporary internship, NGO, dance group or corporate house, but only started cashing in on such opportunities to make connections only after joining my first job. Meeting as many people as possible, leaving a positive impression and staying in touch with them can ease the challenges in your career path considerably. 

Challenge 3: Success is great, but failures make the success greater. Nothing teaches you more than your own failures. It was only during my CA final exams, when I was between attempts, did I realize that a few exams cannot be the end of my life. When you are locked inside a room with hundreds of heavy books and no sleep, there is hardly any inspiration left to study, clear and move on with your career. In those times, I understood the importance of self-motivation, self-confidence, consistency, and patience. If I do not believe in myself, no one else will and I cannot wait or expect people to inspire me or motivate me every time I am down. Everything takes time. Miracles happen only after you have given your fair share of efforts to it. 

Where do you work now? What problems do you solve?

I am a Senior Associate with Forensic Risk Alliance, New York. It is an international consultancy firm specializing in corruption and fraud investigations, compliance, and risk mitigations for multinational clients.

I am primarily into forensic accounting and investigations. In simple terms, my role comes into place, whenever there is a misappropriation of funds, bribery, corruption, fund embezzlement, employee wrong-doing, policy and law compliance assessment. 

What skills are required for your role? How did you acquire the skills?

Basic skills required for my job are a skeptical and analytical mindset, accounting knowledge, understanding of business processes, fine knowledge of the relevant laws involved, such as Anti-bribery and Anti-corruption Act, Prevention of Money Laundering Act, Insolvency and Bankruptcy Act. CA gave me the major share of knowledge required. Further, I am currently pursuing Certified Fraud Examiner (CFE) for a more specialized degree in the field. 

What is a typical day like?

A typical day at work involves reading financials, policies, and other reports, performing testing transactions, conducting client discussions, performing assessments for potential fraud risk in company processes, reporting the findings to the client such as senior management of the same company, Board members, Investors, and government authorities. 

What is it you love about this job? 

My work never gets mundane, that is what keeps me going. There is always a new problem to take care of which requires a unique solution forcing me to brainstorm, do research and find the most effective solution. It is a 9-5 job, but more than just a 9-5 job. 

How does your work benefit society? 

Forensic accounting professionals primarily collaborate with corporations and governments to investigate fraud, bribery and corruption, money-laundering, and disputes. Our work helps put a hard stop to financial misconduct in an organization. 

Tell us an example of a specific memorable work you did that is very close to you!

My most memorable work would have to be my project in Tunisia. It was my first international client and that too for 60 days straight in North Africa. We had language barriers, time-zone differences, data challenges, stringent timelines due to limited time-period visa. We had to test 8000 transactions and make an exhaustive dataset from those transactions. We had to be very mindful and strategic about the information available on the vouchers and capturing it in the most effective manner in order to perform analysis. Just when we got comfortable with all of that, my manager fell extremely sick, and we were suddenly running in and out of hospital for a a good 15 days. Medical emergencies did not stop us, we managed our time and efforts better and were able to meet all the deadlines. 

Your advice to students based on your experience?

It is okay not to have everything chalked-out to the T. Do not beat yourself up just because you have not figured out your career path and your friends have. Everyone has their own journey, as long as you reach a destination that you are happy with, it does not matter. 

Future Plans?

I am currently pursuing CFE (Certified Fraud Examiner) which will give me more specialized knowledge of forensic accounting. I want to grow in my field and get as much exposure as possible.